E&OE
Laura Jayes, Host: Joining me now is Business Council of Australia Chief Executive Bran Black. He’s here with me in the studio. So, where did it land? Were there any changes from the changes that we saw last week because you were still concerned about that package?
Bran Black, Chief Executive: Yes, we were, and we are still concerned, very concerned by the changes, and indeed by the Bill itself. Ben Carroll’s met with business groups, and we were pleased to have that engagement with him. However, the fundamental problems with the Bill still remain, they have not been addressed. And so our call, right across the business group community, if I can call it that, is the same, and that is set the Bill aside, don’t proceed. It’s ultimately going to set Victoria backwards.
Laura: So after that meeting, what changed?
Bran: Well, he made a number of changes. The key change that was incorporated was ensuring that the rights couldn’t be stackable. But there are a whole series of questions that remain unaddressed.
Laura: Sorry, what does that mean exactly?
Bran: So what was proposed initially was a series of arrangements where you could have your right to work for home for two days, and then that would exist in addition to any other existing rights that you had under other instruments. So you could potentially be working from home for more than two days.
Now, what the Premier has done is address that particular issue and a series of other issues as well, but there are fundamental flaws with the Bill that remain, and so our position remains: set the Bill aside, don’t proceed.
Laura: Because if it gets introduced, I mean, this wedges the Coalition, doesn’t it, ahead of a state election, and it’s likely to pass?
Bran: Well, I certainly aren’t going to comment on the politics, but our call to the Opposition is exactly the same, and that is that don’t vote for the Bill.
Laura: Have you met with Jess Wilson as well? What has she had to say?
Bran: Across the business groups, we’ve met with everybody that we possibly can within the Parliament. We’ve continued to make the case that the bill shouldn’t proceed, and we’ll continue to make that case. What is absolutely clear is that it raises any number of different problems.
So the Property Council, for instance, today has released advice which shows from eminent silks that this has a real risk of being challenged in the High Court. That’s a real problem for businesses because if the Bill is passed, they’re complying with something that might potentially be unconstitutional. So the best way of trying to avoid that type of issue: a) it’s not passing the bill, but at the very least, put out into the public domain the legal advice that you’ve got, so that you can understand the perspective that Government’s taking, and that hasn’t happened either. So there are challenges everywhere with the Bill.
And one of the key points that we continue to note is that it explicitly recognises that a reduction in productivity in Victoria is okay. And this is the state that consistently comes last on the Business Council’s rankings for regulation and planning performance. It’s the state that’s led the country for unemployment for 18 of the last 24 months. It simply can’t afford to go further backwards in terms of productivity or in terms of business attractiveness.
Laura: If I could ask you about One Nation for a moment, because they’re dominating discussion right now, is business starting to take One Nation seriously as a party of government? That some of these policies, you know, could be reality in a couple of years?
Bran: We always meet and work with everybody that we can right across the Parliament, and we always take an open mind to policy proposals that are put forward. At the end of the day, we will judge policy based on the detail that we’re able to see, or in many instances, as per the Victorian situation, the lack of detail that we see. But we certainly look at our engagement with One Nation and right across the crossbench more broadly, and the opposition and the government in good faith.
Laura: From what you’ve seen so far, are One Nation, good economic managers?
Bran: Well, they’ve certainly put forward a series of interesting policies that we are happy to consider again in good faith. The key point that I’d make in terms of the announcements that have been made in the last 24 hours in terms of superannuation is that we consistently make the argument that the best thing that we can do to address the challenge of housing, which of course is incredibly real, is more supply. Supply, supply, and then a little bit more supply on top of that.
Laura: Sure, but when you look at the taxes and superannuation more broadly. One Nation and its spending v saving, do you have any concerns there? I mean, some economists have said that their policies are inflationary. Do you believe that to be true?
Bran: Well, we would certainly consider all the policies that they put forward on that basis, and I think it’s really important, certainly as we head closer towards an election, that we do get to see how these policies are costed. A key argument that we make, that economists make, with good reason, is that if we put ourselves too far in debt, a) obviously we increase our likelihood of seeing further interest rate rises, but b) we create an unsustainable challenge for future generations that just isn’t fair.
Laura: What about their immigration policy?
Bran: Well, my view in terms of immigration is that we absolutely have to be starting the discussion by looking at skills. We have one in three occupations reporting skills shortages in Australia. We know from the Government’s own analysis, from the Intergenerational Report, that come 2060 we’ll have far fewer people working, proportionately, compared to now, compared to the proportionate number of people who are retired over the age of 65.
The only way that we solve for that and the burden that that situation would place on future generations is by growing the size of the pie. To do that, we need people. We can produce them at home, and we can attract skilled migration from abroad, but we need to be approaching the migration debate, in my view, with a very clear understanding that the best thing that we can do is attract quality skilled migrants and get them into the workforce.
Laura: Can that be done under NOM that is 130,000, at least in the first year?
Bran: I think that the most productive step that we can take, rather than looking at particular numbers as our target for migrants, is looking at the skills that we need because those can be quantified as well. What are the skills that we need? What is the quantity of skill that we therefore need to attract from the outset?
Laura: But I think there’s something like 80,000 tradies short in the home building sector. I mean, wouldn’t a 130,000 cap smash the economy?
Bran: Well, again, I think what we’ve got to be doing is starting from the perspective of the skills that we need, and we know, as you say –
Laura: Is any party doing that?
Bran: I don’t think we are sufficiently. That’s the simple point. If you look at housing construction, as you say, I think we need 90,000 more people. If you look at the energy transition, we need 60,000 electricians and engineers by 2030 alone.
So when you start adding those tens of thousands of workers, you can see right across the economy why it’s the case that consistently employers say that one in three occupations is facing a skills shortage.
Laura: Bran, Bathla is a big story for us, obviously here in Sydney, and it’s put a bit of a spotlight on the amount of state and government, council, state, federal government taxes that go into building a home. It’s just too much.
Bran: It is too much. We’ll be in the not too distant future releasing a report that quantifies this on a state by state basis, and I’d love to talk to you more about that then. But in the meantime, what I would say is that when you add up those taxes, the figures are simply extraordinary, and it really paints the picture that government and government taxes and charges add a lot of money to the overall cost of a home.
Laura: About 50 per cent?
Bran: I’ll hold on the figure until we’ve got the report ready, but it is very significant.
Laura: Bran, great to see you. Appreciate it.