Speakers: 2GB, Host Ben Fordham; Business Council of Australia Chief Executive Bran Black
Topics: NSW Digital Work Systems Bill
E&OE
Ben Fordham, 2GB Host: Big day for the Premier, Chris Minns is being urged to meet with business leaders this morning before it’s too late. The Premier’s union spying legislation is on the verge of getting up in New South Wales Parliament. If it passes, it’ll be a free-for-all for union leaders to access the private data of businesses. But before it’s put to a vote, major employers have been sending a scathing letter to the Premier, they’re calling for the legislation to be dropped or wholesale changes to be made.
The CEO of the Business Council has requested an urgent meeting with Chris Minns. Bran Black is on the line right now, the Chief Executive of the Business Council of Australia.
G’day, Bran.
Bran Black, Chief Executive: G’day, thanks for having me on the show.
Ben: Are you meeting with the Premier this morning?
Bran: We certainly hope so, and when we do, we certainly hope to be able to make the case very strongly that under this Bill, we’ll see unions being given more power than the police to enter premises. The reality is police need a warrant, under this Bill, unions would be able to access premises, they’d be able to access data, and it really doesn’t matter whether or not you run or work in a cafe, a factory, a farm or a vet surgery, your data is at risk.
Ben: There’s been a lot of activity in Macquarie Street in the last 48 hours. I know you’ve been involved in some of it. It looks like the Premier’s under a bit of pressure on this one.
Bran: Well, we hope so, because it’s bad legislation. We haven’t seen a gap in existing law identified. We know that there are extremely broad access powers that are being given to union officials. I mean, nobody wants CFMEU officials rocking up on their doorstep and demanding unfettered access to premises, and it really disincentivises investment, and that is a major problem, as we see in circumstances where our economy really does need those type of productivity lifts that help reduce inflationary pressures.
Ben: And if you’re a big multinational and you’ve got New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, South Australia to choose from, and your advisors are saying, just so you know, in New South Wales, there’s a law now whereby union officials can get access to your data, they’re going to say, “Well, we’ll go somewhere else. We’ll go to Queensland.”
Bran: I think that’s absolutely right, and that’s one of the sad realities of these types of decisions. We know that capital is mobile. We know that companies, in many instances now are choosing not to invest in Australia. But if we can get them into Australia, you want them to have a decent choice in terms of where they locate their operations.
If New South Wales goes down the path of imposing this type of regulation, which really does imperil data and impose pretty significant obligations, then that sends a very clear signal that investment cannot be welcome.
Ben: A number of people have put forward amendments, and we’re hoping the Premier is going to be listening to them or maybe dump it all together, but I don’t think so, he’s gone too far down that path, and promises have been made to the union. And this goes back to one of the original issues, that cozy relationship between the ALP and the union movement.
Bran: Well, I think in this instance, it’s very clear that the unions definitely come off the winners if this Bill is passed. We do need to see this Bill dropped, or at the very least some sensible changes. We’ve been putting forward amendments that we think provide those type of sensible alternatives. We know people can be a little bit apprehensive about artificial intelligence.
What we’ve sought to do is say, look, there is an option here that enables you to give that type of transparency that people are looking for if you’re intent on moving forward with this Bill. And so, we would say, “Listen to these options, take a look at them, sit down with us and we’re very happy to run through them.”
Ben: So, you haven’t got an answer yet from Chris Minn’s office as to whether you’ve got a meeting?
Bran: Not as yet. We’re very much hoping to have the chance to engage with the Premier. We’ve certainly had an opportunity to engage with his minister. We’ve certainly had an opportunity to engage with members of the crossbench in both houses of Parliament and what we’re hoping to be able to do is put our case and say that there are some sensible changes that need to be made so that we can do away with the more concerning aspects of this Bill, which, as I mentioned earlier, will give unions more powers than the police.
Ben: Good luck twisting his arm, and thanks very much for your time.
Bran: Thanks so much for having me on the show.