Event: BCA Chief Executive Bran Black interview and ACTU President Michele O’Neil interview with Sally Sara, ABC Radio National Breakfast

Speakers: ABC Radio National Breakfast, Host Sally Sara; Business Council of Australia Chief Executive Bran Black and Australian Council of Trade Unions President Michele O'Neil

Date: 26 March 2025

Topics: Federal Budget, non-compete clauses, JobSeeker

E&OE

Sally Sara, Radio National Breakfast Host: Business Council of Australia says last night's Budget contains some positive measures but ultimately fails to grow the pie. And for its part, the Australian Council of Trade Unions has welcomed the banning of non-compete clauses for most workers for more I'm joined now by the ACTU National President Michele O'Neil and Business Council of Australia Chief Executive, Bran Black.

Michele and Bran, welcome to Radio National Breakfast.

Michele O'Neil, ACTU President: Morning Sally, morning Bran.

Bran, BCA Chief Executive: Morning, thanks for having me.

Sally: Good to have you in the studio. Bran, you said last night that this Budget misses the mark in terms of measures to grow the overall pie, grow the economy. What would you like to have seen?

Bran: Well look, let me start by saying that there are measures that we were pleased to see. Firstly, we were impressed with the utilisation of the National Productivity Fund to support national skills recognition, that's a great initiative. We're also particularly pleased with the long-term vision associated with schools funding. Ultimately, that back to basics approach is going to help Australians, and ultimately that will help grow the pie.

But what we need right now, we've got productivity sitting at negative 1.2 per cent, that's against the long run average of 1.2 per cent and I do stress that our projections out into the future are also showing productivity at 1.2 per cent, so we're a full 2.4 per cent off the projections. That's important, because productivity drives real wages, and that's what we want to see increase. So we've been arguing for measures around deregulation, we've been arguing for measures with respect to how we can streamline planning approval processes, especially at the federal level, measures in terms of how we fund research and development, and also what we could do in terms of a broad-based investment allowance for businesses.

Sally: Michele O'Neil, from a union perspective, what's the missed opportunity in this Budget?

Michele: Well, we think the Budget's good for workers, Sally. We think that because it's wages up and taxes down, but also really important measures that aren't just good for wages growth, but also good for productivity. So, you see those non-compete clauses, these are things that affect about 3 million workers, and people don't even know what they are in many cases.

They're basically ways that workers are bound, or in some ways, it's like they're owned by the employer, because they can't go off and get another job get better pay based on their skills, because they're not allowed to go and work in another industry, and they're legally stuck. These have been banned in other countries, and the Productivity Commission modelled this and said this was one of the top five ideas to actually increase productivity. So, it would drive wages up 4 per cent or $2,500 for about 3 million workers, and it would, as a result of productivity improvements, add $5.4 billion to our GDP.

So, I think these are important things that are good for workers and good for business and the economy, but most business groups don't seem to like the idea that they can't keep workers tied to them in the future, we support this.

Sally: We were hearing from small business earlier in the program, from a larger business perspective Bran, what are the concerns about these non-compete causes?

Bran: Well, I would say there is a business perspective on this, and that is that whilst we appreciate that there are sometimes challenges that do need to be addressed, this is not the way to do it. So, we think that there is an approach that could be taken in terms of better education. So, we would favour education rather than regulation.

Sally: Education on what?

Bran: Education with respect to what rights and responsibilities are, both for employers and for employees. The reason why I say that is that there is already a very substantial body of case law that says what you can do and what you can't do. The problem is people don't know about that. So we would say, rather than go to the extreme of regulating, which has the impact of potentially discouraging employers from bringing on new workers, take the approach of educating first, seeing if we can provide some type of public service in relation to websites or phone in lines and so forth, seeing what the effect of that is, before we take the additional step of imposing what is effectively an arbitrary regulation.

Sally: Let's have a look at the issue of JobSeeker. Michele, the ACTU was represented on the panel that delivered the report on economic inclusion a couple of weeks ago, recommending an increase in the JobSeeker rate, that hasn't happened - what's your response to that?

Michele: We've been long term supporters of the need to lift JobSeeker, Sally. We know that for people who are out of work, they need to be able to have enough to live on, to put them in the very best position to make sure they're able to find new jobs and pay for the cost of living, so it's something we continue to support.

Sally: And Bran, from the BCA perspective, the BCA has consistently supported an increase in JobSeeker as well. Were you disappointed it wasn't there?

Bran: We do want to see, in time, the capacity for the Budget to fund these sorts of initiatives. The challenge, of course, that we have is that we are looking at a decade worth of deficits. We're seeing a deficit this financial year of $27 billion that increases to $42 billion in the next financial year.

What we're saying is that we need to invest in those productivity enhancing initiatives that I mentioned before, so that we can grow the overall size of the pie for everybody and therefore generate the capacity to invest in these types of social supports.

Sally: We've only got about a minute and a half up our sleeve, it's ticking away. From a business perspective, we're hearing some caution, but a bit of confidence from the Treasurer that despite international uncertainty, the economy will be able to avoid a recession in the months ahead. Are you more concerned about that uncertainty on the international stage?

Bran: We are concerned about the uncertainty. But I think the thing that I always try and back this point in we can only control what we can control. There is going to be uncertainty swirling all around us all the time, it just so happens that at the moment on the international stage, there's probably a little more of it than usual. But one of the things that we can control is whether or not our investment environment here in Australia is as attractive as possible. We would say that we've got work to do in that regard, and we hope to be able to continue that work with whoever is in government on the other side of the election.

Sally: From a union perspective, Michele, how are your concerns about protecting Australian jobs when we are in a volatile environment, we're waiting for Liberation Day in inverted commas next week, from the US Government?

Michele: Look, we are worried about the impact of what Donald Trump is doing and its impact around the world, and particularly on the need to support local jobs and of course, government spending in terms of supporting the services and things like health and education are the things that have kept us out of recession to date and have kept our labour market strong Sally.

But we also want to see that there is support, and it's in the Budget, with Future Made in Australia, being able to see that investment and how we make the transition to renewable energy, but do it in a way where we create good quality jobs In the places that need them, so that we have that way that workers in the communities we've relied on for generations are able to pick up those jobs the future.

So, government spending and procurement is an important part of that, but also the investment support for green metals, critical minerals and making the stuff that we need here in Australia will also support local jobs.

Sally: It's been so valuable to get a business and a union perspective on the announcements made in the Federal Budget last night. To Bran Black, thank you very much for coming into the studio this morning and also to ACTU National President, Michele O'Neil. Before we started, I said we've got seven minutes, it's going to feel about like two and it was. Thank you so much.