Event: BCA Chief Executive Bran Black and ACOSS Chief Executive Officer Cassandra Goldie AO interview with David Speers, Insiders, ABC

Speakers: Insiders, Host David Speers; Business Council of Australia Chief Executive Bran Black; Australian Council of Social Service Chief Executive Officer Cassandra Goldie AO

Date: 25 March 2025

Topics: Federal Budget, productivity, Safeguard Mechanism

E&OE

David Speers, Insiders Host: Thank you both very much for joining me after your own Budget lock-up today. Cass, we know you sit on the Economic Inclusion Advisory Committee, which, again, I think it's three years in a row, you've called for JobSeeker increase to be a top priority. There hasn't been a further increase for JobSeeker tonight, this tax cut instead that goes to all taxpayers. What do you make of that?

Cassandra Goldie AO, Australian Council of Social Service: We’re astounded, David, that the centrepiece of tonight's Budget is more dollars for everybody, except people with the least. You know, with this recommendation from this expert committee, chaired by Jenny Macklin, which has consistently said the top priority if you're worried about people who are financially disadvantaged in a cost-of-living crisis is to fix the adequacy of JobSeeker. Now on their recommendations, that would have cost us about, you know, $4.6 billion to fix it properly, and then we would have been able to move beyond the reality that those people just do not have enough money. $56 a day, David. I cannot believe that again tonight.

We've been able to afford another $7 billion in a round of tax cuts off the back of $20 billion that was spent last year in tax cuts. Remember, tax cuts go right up the income scale, so wealthy people get the benefit of a tax cut, and people with the least tonight are still waiting.

David: What do you think, Bran Black. Is this $17 billion tax cut the best way to spend that money?

Bran Black, Business Council of Australia: Well, we are supportive of the tax cut. We think that it's $17 billion over five years, we know that everybody's doing it tough. We've seen that there are measures that are intended to support people right across the board, including the tax cuts, including what we've seen in terms of relief with respect to electricity bills, of course, in terms of medicines as well.

But fundamentally, we're concerned that this Budget doesn't contain a sufficiently clear agenda for how we can grow the size of the pie. Ultimately, if we can invest in productivity-enhancing measures, that's how we gain the scope to make further investments.

David: What should that include?

Bran: Well, there are a few key things that we've called for. I mean, broadly speaking, we want to see changes with respect to industrial relations, with respect to how we do approvals processes and so forth. But some specific measures that I'd call out would include a broad-based investment allowance, 20 per cent is what we've called for. We've called for a new approach to how we do research and development in terms of the tax incentive and how that applies, and we think we've got to be really targeted on how we can reform the Environmental Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act to deliver both outcomes for business on the one hand, but also outcomes for the environment as well.

David: What about the measure tonight on banning non-compete clauses for low and middle-income earners that is seen as a productivity-enhancing measure, do you welcome that?

Bran: No, it's not something that we support.

David: Why not?

Bran: There are a few key reasons, but the first and most critical for me is that there is already a significant body of case law that tells you what you can and can't do. So we think that this is a good situation in which you apply an education rather than a regulation approach. And what that means in practice is that people should have a clear understanding, government-provided information that goes to what they can expect and what they can and can't do if they're an employee, but also what they can and can't do if they're an employer.

David: But why do you think hairdressers should be hit with non-compete clauses?

Bran: Well, think about it from the perspective of somebody who's operated a small business as a hairdresser. They might have run a store on a suburban shopping centre for 20 years. They've invested, each and every year in their staff, with training, with resourcing, with new techniques and so forth, and then one of their staff opens up a store just down the road.

David: That’s competition, isn't it?

Bran: It is competition, but it's not an incentive for small businesses, particularly, to invest in their staff if they know that they can walk out the door with that critical information.

David: Coming back to your concerns, Cass around those who are the most vulnerable, sure they may not get the tax cut if they aren't a taxpayer, Government would, I'm sure, argue they will get energy bill relief, the bulk billing incentives that are extended. There are other measures here tonight for them, do you accept?

Cassandra: Well, people on very low incomes, JobSeeker, they are taxpayers, David they pay the GST that’s the first thing, but they won't get the benefit from an income tax cut, again. The energy bill relief, we've never been a fan of it, it goes to everybody. You know, by now, we’ve spent $6.8 billion on that measure. And this one now, it does end in December and for people on low incomes out there who are struggling, you know, 14 times more likely be going without one substantial meal a day, unable to keep the lights on. It's very serious this financial crisis that people on very low incomes are in, this is one off this energy bill relief, whereas the tax cuts, they go on.

So, I want to highlight tonight, and there are some really important measures in this Budget, no question. The investment in public education, we celebrate that. 80 per cent of children from low-income families are in public schools, creating more bulk billing, fantastic. These are really important priorities. Three days of early childhood education, great, but to continue to refuse to deal with the top priority in terms of tackling poverty in a very wealthy country, as I say tonight again, we go, when will it be done if you can find more room for tax cuts and not room to help people who really need the help the most?

David: Does the Business Council support an increase in JobSeeker?

Bran: What we would like to see is more reform, as I've said, that grows the size of the pie, so that we're in a position to take those types of services.

David: No, I understand that but do you support an increase in JobSeeker?

Bran: Well, we would like to see that, as I say but I think what we need to get to is a point where we're not as we are right now, looking down the barrel of year after year after year of deficit. That makes it particularly challenging.

Cassandra: This expert committee looked at the benefits of increasing JobSeeker beyond, of course, the really important benefits to somebody who's trying to feed themselves and deal with suicidal ideation because they're so destitute, and it's very clear it is the productivity measure. In fact, you know, you get another 25 per cent back from the investment you make, because people are less distressed, they're more able to invest in skills development to rework how they're going to get back into the labour market because we desperately need people in the labour market to take up good jobs, but you cannot do that when you're in such financial distress.

David: Just one more question before I let you go, because this is something that's been talked about as we head into the election campaign, Bran Black, does the Business Council want the Safeguards Mechanism for the 200 heaviest emitters in Australia relaxed at all, or are you happy to see that stay as it is?

Bran: Look, our members are comfortable with the Safeguard Mechanism. Indeed, they proposed changes to the Safeguard Mechanism that have been incorporated into the existing mechanism. So, we think that the critical thing that we should be looking for as a nation is clarity on what the plan is that helps us deliver on net zero. There are a series of initiatives, there are different proposals coming from different sides of politics. Fundamentally, business is looking for certainty so it can make investments.

David: Alright, well, thank you both very much for joining us on Budget night. We look forward to hearing from you through the campaign as well.