Business Coalition for Workplace Reform: BCA President’s Interview with ABC’s Lateline Business

Transcript of comments by BCA President Michael Chaney to ABC Television’s Lateline Business program regarding the advertising campaign launched by the Business Coalition for Workplace Reform (read more about that campaign via the links at the end of this page).

8 August 2007

Ali Moore: Well, one of the key organisers of the pro-WorkChoices campaign is the Business Council of Australia, which counts the CEOs of 100 of the country’s biggest companies among its members. The council’s president, Michael Chaney, joined me in the studio earlier this evening. Michael Chaney, welcome to Lateline Business.

Michael Chaney: Thanks Ali.

Ali Moore: This, in essence, this ad campaign is big business saying vote one John Howard.

Michael Chaney: Well no, that’s not right. Firstly it is not big business. There are actually 19 employer groups involved in this and they represent 350,000 employers and about four and a half million employees, and it’s not a political campaign. You’ll see from the advertisements that they’re really directed at policy and they’re directed at the very strong message that workplace reform has been a huge factor in Australia’s success, that the reforms that started with the Hawke/Keating Government and were continued by the current government, have been really important in increasing employment, and jobs, and growth and so on and in allowing real wages to rise. And winding back those reforms would have the opposite effect, it would be very bad for the economy, very bad for employment.

Ali Moore: You say it’s about policy not politics, but we’re specifically talking the policy of one political party, aren’t we? We’re talking WorkChoices. Isn’t it disingenuous to argue anything else?

Michael Chaney: Well, we’re not interested in how people vote, frankly. What we’re interested is in good policy and there is time for the ALP to change its policy and the platform it goes to the electorate with. And what we want to help people understand is that you just can’t roll back workplace reform and expect the economy to operate as healthily as it has before. It will increase unemployment, it will result in a lower growth rate than we’ve had to date and that we will have, if we have flexible, open working arrangement. That’s the message we want to get across.

Ali Moore: So, it is politics though isn’t it? I mean, either you vote for the government to keep the policy that you say business wants and needs or Labor changes its policy and then it’s a potential. But if Labor doesn’t, vote for the government?

Michael Chaney: Well, it’s all about policy, in my view; that’s not politics. And the important thing is that both parties go to the electorate with a workplace relations policy that’s good for the country and good for the economy.

Ali Moore: There are, of course, a number of business groups, probably most notably the Australian Industry Group and also the Retail Association, who are not supporting this campaign because they fear being seen as partisan; they say that is a potential. Does the division among business on this weaken your argument?

Michael Chaney: Well, I’m disappointed that they’ve taken that approach, and in fact they haven’t seen the advertisements. And I think when they see the advertisements they’ll realise they’re not political advertisements. And all the feedback we’ve got from people we’ve shown these to has been they’re not political, they’re really about policy.

Those groups, for whatever reason, have decided not to join, but there are 19 employer groups in this, as I said, representing 350,000 employers. It’s unique, I think in the history of business that so many organisations feel so strongly about an issue that they’ve come together in this way.

Ali Moore: Give than you feel so strongly and some obviously don’t feel the same way, does it weaken the campaign?

Michael Chaney: I don’t think it does at all. I mean, the – you would probably find that of the 350,000 employers represented by this coalition, many of those are members of those organisations that for whatever reason have decided not to participate.

Ali Moore: Let’s look at the argument for these ads. As the Chamber of Commerce and Industry spokesman, Tony Howarth, said at today’s launch, the claim is that without WorkChoices, interest rates would be higher, inflation would be higher. But since WorkChoices was introduced we’ve had four rate rises in about 15 months and prior to WorkChoices we had five over four years.

Michael Chaney: Well, I think it is all relative and I think you raise a very important point. You know, something’s happening in Australia today that’s never happened before. We’ve got a resources boom, we’ve got strong wages, inflation in the resources sector, and yet moderate wages growth across the country. That’s never happened before. What’s happened before when we haven’t had a flexible workplace relations system is that wage rises in one section - sector through pattern bargaining have ... and a centralised sort of system have flowed right across the economy.

That’s caused wage inflation at a much higher level than we’re seeing today, feeding into general inflation and has caused interest rates to be pushed way above 10 per cent for example. This is a really important point. If you wind back workplace relations reform and you move back to a more central system, back to stronger union involvement, more pattern bargaining risk, you really run the risk of interest rates rising much more strongly than they are today.

Ali Moore: Because wages will rise?

Michael Chaney: Yes, because you’ll have a wage blowout in other sections of the economy that can’t afford it, and that’ll feed through to higher general inflation and much higher interest rates.

Ali Moore: Is this part of the sell problem, though, that many people, perhaps not those in the mining, the boom industries, but in other industries, feel that they hear so much about 16 years of economic prosperity, but they don’t feel that they’re sharing. They feel that the wage rates have been kept down. Is that part of the difficulty of a sell?

Michael Chaney: Well, I think it is a real challenge, I think, for – to explain the issue. I mean, somebody who’s just able to vote now was only two at the time of the last recession and they – I think many people don’t understand what recessions are about and how painful they can be and they don’t understand the linkages between flexible working arrangements and economic growth. And that’s what we’re trying to do.

Ali Moore: And lower wages?

Michael Chaney: Well no, not lower wages at all. And in fact, our unemployment rate is the lowest it’s been in 30 years. Real wages have continued to increase. In fact, they’ve grown more than 20 per cent over the last 10 years …

Ali Moore: But at the same time …

Michael Chaney: … when we’ve had individual agreements.
Ali Moore: But you are also arguing, aren’t you, that WorkChoices has reduced the pressure on inflation by keeping wages in check? So, you can’t argue both ways.

Michael Chaney: Well no, what it’s done is enabled wage blow-outs in one sector not to be transmitted across the whole economy. Now in the rest of the economy we’ve had moderate wage growth and that’s been mainta... that’s been sustainable and it’s given rise to some inflation and some increases of interest rates, but we haven’t had the disastrous sort of blow-outs across the whole country that have, in the past, caused interest rates to go into their mid-teens, for example.

Ali Moore: If we look at those ACTU ads they’re very specifically targeted, they take a case study, they take a mother with a sick child. The ad that you’ve launched your campaign with is very much big picture, very general. Are they going to hit their target?

Michael Chaney: Well, the testing we’ve done on those ads indicate that they do resonate with people. People sit back and say, gosh, no-one’s actually explained to us before this linkage between flexible working arrangements and economic growth and prosperity, and now I see it.

Ali Moore: Can you do that in 30 seconds?

Michael Chaney: Well, the first one’s a minute, I guess that’s better than 30 seconds. It’s a challenge, I think. It’s a real challenge in our society, getting any message across, especially on a complex subject in a simple way when there is a heck of a lot of noise around you and a lot of messages. You know, the testing we’ve done on these ads indicates that they should be successful.

Ali Moore: How much is it costing you?

Michael Chaney: Well, we haven’t disclosed those figures. I mean, we’ve had contributions from many of those 19 organisations that are on board, large and small.

Ali Moore: Anything like the 18 mil that’s apparently in the ACTU coffers?

Michael Chaney: No, it’s not of that magnitude at all, and in fact there’s no final figure. You know, with these things you run a campaign and you measure the effect, you decide whether to do more. Contributions continue to come in. You know, time will tell.

Ali Moore: So, there is a bottomless pit?

Michael Chaney: There’s no bottomless pit and it certainly won’t be $18 million.

Ali Moore: And they’ll run all the way through the election campaign?

Michael Chaney: Well, we don’t know when the election campaign will be. Our aim is to run this in a way that gets the message out and helps people understand the link between employ ... employment flexibility and economic prosperity.

Ali Moore: But you are comfortable to run them during an election campaign?

Michael Chaney: Well, it’s not an issue for us. You know, the election campaign may be soon, it may be later. Our ads will run and, you know, in a discreet period of time and that’ll be it.
 
Ali Moore: Michael Chaney, many thanks for joining us.

Michael Chaney: Thanks Ali.

Read more about the Business Coalition for Workplace Reform campaign.